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Prince's legal name Prince Roger Nelson ?

Started by Kylie, September 02, 2016, 04:29:15 AM

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Kylie

Apologies for the delay in uploading the images but it's done now!
First, Prince's actual birth certificate


The handwritten birth announcement


And lastly the motorbike registration from 1988



Kylie

Thanks for sharing those links Nevermind :)
Both confirm Prince Roger Nelson
Great finds!

MIRvmn

Yes that handwritten birth announcement is a real proof that his name is Prince Roger Nelson. I try to figure out why he added the s later, there must be a reason for that.
Thunder, all through the night
Promise to see Jesus in the morning light
Take my hand, it'll be alright
C'mon save your soul tonight

Rainbowblue

Quote from: Nevermind on September 04, 2016, 06:38:31 PM
then there is this news article from way back when
http://www.startribune.com/the-real-story-behind-prince-s-junior-high-basketball-photo/295046261/

Good article Never mind
for you guests who never log in it says."One thing the series disclosed: Prince's true age. I tracked down his birth certificate and learned that he was actually two years older than he had purported to be. He was born on June 7, 1958, as Prince Roger Nelson, according to the birth records."


Rainbowblue

#21
John Nelson used the name Prince Rogers as his stage name as the front man for the band the Prince Rogers Trio. The lead singer of the band Mattie Shaw married John Nelson and they named their 1st child together Prince Rogers Nelson after the couples band and his father's stage name.
Obituaries John Nelson
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/john-nelson-9204256.html

The middle name Roger without the "s", on the birth certificate is assumed by many in the Prince fam community to be a typo.

"The "s" left off the birth certificate was likely a mistake. I believe Jon Bream (in his book) pointed out that the "s" was supposed to be on the certificate but a typo was made.
Prince's passport and legal stuff all say Prince Rogers Nelson. So, despite what is on the birth certificate, his middle name is now officially Rogers".
Rogers or Roger? Prince.org
http://prince.org/msg/7/326591

Many birth certificates have type o's that are never changed.

For example Prince's full sister is reported to also have a typo or spelling inconsistency on her birth certificate. Reportedly her birth name is written as Tika but she uses the spelling Tyka with a Y rather than an I.
"Tika Evene(born 1960) (usually known as Tyka)."
John Nelson Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Nelson

Still it maybe that the spelling of both children changed Prince Roger(s) and Tyka over the years.

Many people change the spelling of their names just by writing it differently without filling out a legal name change application.
"Should I legally Change the spelling of my name."
http://nameberry.com/nametalk/threads/73706-Should-I-legally-change-the-spelling-of-my-name

How to change your child's name | ...
http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-to-change-your-childs-name_3641846.bc

"How to change the spelling of a child's name."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/227153-how-to-change-the-spelling-of-a-childs-name/

Changing the spelling of your child's name is fairly common. As is changing the spelling of your own name by "common usage". Changing a name legally is a process with cost $. Many change the name through common usage and start writing and signing the name as you want it to be spelled.

His given name maybe Prince Rogers after his dad but his legal name would be Prince Roger as it was written on his birth certificate. Prince Roger should have been the name written on his death certificate.
"Who is Prince Rogers Prince.org"
http://prince.org/msg/7/417902

1st names such as Prince, King, Queen, Queeny, Princess, Doc, Mister, High John, Mother, Poppa, Senior. Were very common during and after slavery. As were names that designated the sort of work the baby would be assigned and trained to do as they grew up such as Cookie for a Cook, Weaver, Carpenter, Woody, Iron Joe (for a baby who be a Blacksmith. Having a middle name that is a last name such as Mother Johnson (for a enslaved baby who would be given the job of wet nurse or nanny) and so on. During slavery children would also be named after words, concepts or objects. A still common one is the name "Precious" as is Noble. Yes some Enslavers used these names to oppress. Although odd sounding now, enslaved persons of African decent were continuing a tradition of name giving that had meaning and intention.

Name giving such as this continued after slavery during the period John Nelson father of Prince Nelson was born. Another example of this is Prince Screws father of Katherine Jackson, Grandfather of Michael Jackson Great grand father of Prince Michael Jackson.

Prince used the middle name Roger as well as Rogers of his own free will on various legal documents.

The confusion between the spelling of the name Roger and Rogers may have began when he was born.

The name Prince Roger rather Rogers may have been a concession made between the parents.

Prince baby picture/birth announcement Prince.org
http://prince.org/msg/7/350285?&pg=4
There was a lot of discussion here as to whether or not the birth announcement is authentic when it was posted on eBay. If it can't be authenticated, who knows for sure.

The birth announcement looks authentic from what I can see.

There has been no evidence provided that Prince Roger is his legal name and Prince Rogers his performing name. He used both spellings of his name in life and career. Who knows for what reasons but himself.
If anyone has documented evidence to the contrary please provide it.

The name "Prince" was his performing name. Many people who knew him prior to his first record contract around age 18 knew him as Skipper.

"Prince Roger Nelson was born June 7, 1958, at Mount Sinai Hospital in Minneapolis to Mattie Shaw and John Nelson. They had been in a jazz ensemble called the Prince Roger Trio. Since Mattie called her husband Prince, she dubbed her son Skipper "because he was small in size and he was just real cute — he was a darling baby." HIS MOTHER (Star Tribune interview, 1984)?
Prince's childhood nickname Skipper Prince.org
http://prince.org/msg/7/105592

"he (John Nelson) decided to give the baby his stage name, so the boy became Prince Rogers Nelson. In a 1991 interview, the elder Nelson explained his thinking behind the choice: "I named my son Prince because I wanted him to do everything I wanted to do." From the very beginning he went by the singular Prince as a stage name."
Prince: The Story Behind His Name(s)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/princes-real-name-has-a-886593

In the African American community birth and death certificates often contain incorrect information. Much of the confusion surrounds the name of the deceased. With close relatives not knowing what the persons legal name is. Particularly if the person was born 50 to 100 years plus years ago. As well as all demographics in the Southern States.

Many Death Certificates have the wrong name, wrong cause of death, height, weight, time of death etc approximately 1/3 of Death Certificates contain false information.
"Only one-third of the respondents," Wexelman and her team found, "believed the current system accurately documents correct cause of death." Nearly half — 48.6 percent —  of respondents reported having identified a cause of death that did not actually represent what the person died from. A small number, 2.9 percent, had ever gone back and updated a death certificate after learning new information about the patient's circumstance."
Study: Nearly one-third of all death certificates are wrong - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/12/study-nearly-half-of-all-death-certificates-are-wrong/

Never the less incorrect Death Certificates are still legal documents.

If no one legally contests the incorrect information on a Birth or Death Certificate, the information is assumed correct and legally binding.

However we have no evidence that a certified death certificate was filed for Prince under any spelling of his name, just a non certified death certificate.
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/Prince-Death-Certificate-02.pdf

Non certified death certificates are for informational purposes only they are not legal documents filed with the State.

"A non-certified copy is a plain paper copy of a death record. It does not show an issue date or issuance location. Non-certified copies are for informational use only and cannot be used for legal purposes. If you need a certificate for legal use, please go to Death Certificates."http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/deathnc.html

We also haven't seen an official autopsy report for Prince under any spelling of his name the public only been provided a Press Release, not an actual autopsy.

Prince, in interviews and conversation made apparent was highly aware of Contract Law, Maritime Admiralty Law, God Given Rights, Sovereign Citizen, Common law, Freeman law, legal fiction, legalese, Straw man Theory and much fringe thought and legal practice.

In such thought a birth certificate is issued for ones legal fiction. A contract with the government. A non certified death certificate may be notice that to the State that the contract has been terminated and the individual is released from said contract.

Although not a Death hoax, Many average people have killed off their strawman or legal fiction to live " freely".

Unlike an average citizen:
In the deaths of celebrities, politicians and other public persons a higher level of scrutiny is placed upon documents such as Death Certificates. So it maybe less common for incorrect information to be present on autopsies and death certificates especially if the person is wealthy or well known.

In the cases of celebrities, wealthy or well known persons various relatives, government officials, attorneys and represents are involved. The Press and public as well as lots of potential capital(Lots of money is involved). Therefore there is a lot of pressure to get things right.

There maybe legal grounds for contesting legalities of a Death Certificate based on typos. Though typeo's are not normally used as the entire basis to confirm that a person reported as dead is actually living.

Nevertheless in the cases of Prince, Elvis and Michael Jackson with incorrect spelling and many other errors that were never corrected get our attention. Like a sign post saying something more than a typo is wrong here, bringing our attention to other inconsistences and that is evidence of a possible Death Hoax.

Kylie

So I guess regardless of the death being a hoax or not, if the death certificate says Rogers, it is still valid.
But we've not seen any actual death certificate, as Rainbowblue pointed out.
I'm sure he was named as Prince Rogers Nelson on legal documents I have seen so perhaps he had his name formally changed.

~Souza~

I haven't read enough about Prince and his middle name, but I do know one or two things about Michael.

With Michael we do not have a birth certificate, only a death certificate. We do know what the birth certificate says though, because we have seen legal documents with his name that were made after 9/11, such as his passport, driver's licence and the indictment for the child molestation trial. The documents from before that date state the same by the way. All of those state Joe as a middle name, which tells us his birth record has Joe on it as well because certainly after 9/11 your identification had to be exactly right and would be taken from your birth record. If Joseph would have been his true middle name, I am sure Sneddon would have put that on the indictment as to not risk a thing regarding the case. So in Michael's case we can be very certain that his middle name is Joe and that means Joe has to be stated on the death record. Joseph can be on there as an a.k.a. but his true middle name MUST be stated. If not, you can get into trouble with insurance payouts etc. Typos can always occur but when you can get millions of insurance when Michael Jackson dies, you will make sure you have the error fixed on the DC. Interestingly enough Michael's life insurance indeed never paid out, instead they chose to cash it in. Same thing with Elvis. Also, we were told back then that he was identified by his driver's license, that apparently he was hiding in his butt crack since he seemed to be naked when brought in. Later on his driver's license was published in the media and it clearly had JOE on it, not Joseph.

So as for Michael Jackson it's pretty clear. I'd like to see Prince's most recent driver's license and passport, the official death certificate and autopsy report, that might shine some light on all this. Besides that I'd keep an eye on any life insurance payouts. If they cash it in, there you have your hoax. If it's paid out it still could be a hoax but you'll never know for sure because that would be plain fraud.

~Souza~

Quote from: Kylie on September 04, 2016, 08:31:22 PM
Apologies for the delay in uploading the images but it's done now!
First, Prince's actual birth certificate


The handwritten birth announcement


And lastly the motorbike registration from 1988


Who wrote that middle one? The parents? Seems like Roger is not a typo to me. Plus Roger seems like more of a middle name than Rogers, which seems to be more a last name. And it looks like they never legally changed it because he still was named 'Roger' in 1988 while he had plenty of money back then to have it changed.

Does anyone know how Prince was identified?

Kylie

#25
I also assume Prince's parents wrote the birth announcement and yes Rogers sounds more like a surname than a middle name.
I haven't seen Prince's drivers licence or passport anywhere to see what name is on them, but I found a lawsuit from January 2014. It states the plaintiff as Prince Rogers Nelson

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/screenwtw.png


Nevermind

did u notice on the live birth cert..no. 122-58-0-09233 and then near the right hand corner another no. 122-58-055236 wonder Y?

Mrfs3121

That's interesting with those numbers Nevermind. As far as the S being added i feel P did the for a VERY clever reason as I feel he had this hoax planned for some time.  That's just my personal intuition though.

~Souza~

Quote from: Kylie on September 07, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
I also assume Prince's parents wrote the birth announcement and yes Rogers sounds more like a surname than a middle name.
I haven't seen Prince's drivers licence or passport anywhere to see what name is on them, but I found a lawsuit from January 2014. It states the plaintiff as Prince Rogers Nelson

http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/hoaxpic/images/screenwtw.png

In court documents it's less of a big deal I read, it doesn't make the papers invalid but sometimes it might give the defense an opportunity to have the records challenged, to maybe win some time. In this case Prince is not the defendant so no one probably cared anyway. That is why I'd like to see passports from after 2001, or a DL even. I haven't found any so far unfortunately.

~Souza~

Here is an interesting article/blog about fictitious names in court: http://ecclesia.org/truth/names.html